video : Christians and an atheist talking about whether or not a God exists

2017

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47 replies :

  1. Marcel I’d like to share a book with you.

    It is the core book of Falun Dafa entitled ‘Zhuan Falun’. It talks about spiritual things from a scientific perspective. It talks about other dimensions, the soul, the cosmos in the microcosm and the macrocosm, supernatural abilities, karma, healing, the true history of mankind, transcending the 5 elements and leaving the 3 realms and many many other fascinating things.

    It is a spiritual science of the highest order. I’ll give you a copy and you can take a look if you like, totally up to you ofcourse:

    http://en.falundafa.org/eng/pdf/ZFL2014.pdf

  2. IF …there were a god who fit the description that most believers claim, that being would easily be able to make its existence and plans totally and unambiguously clear to everyone, everywhere, so there would be no argument. The fact that hardly anyone can agree, particularly the believers themselves, and belief is primarily based on geography, is proof enough to me that it’s all fantasy.

    EVEN IF…”intelligent design” could be proven to any reasonable degree, the only thing that could be inferred from that conclusion, is a designer, period. The only type of designer that could be inferred by any honest assessment of the world we live in, would be an amoral or prankster creator.

    All other attributes that theists apply to this “designer” are projections of what the believer(s) wish for.

  3. marcellee, are you trying to find answers, or just trying to stump people. I ask because, if you are looking for answers I would be interested in having a discussion with you and giving you the most comprehensive answers I can.

    1. that just means more African Americans in Hell. Are you sure you are not part of the Illuminati. The same organizations that fund the legal murder of black babies through planned parenthood. You see if you do not live for Jesus you end up doing Satan’s work by default. And yes Satan is a racist. He hates all mankind period.

      1. Ok now since science prove God is real science is a bunch of bullshit. You have great faith in falsehood. So great you are willing to disregard science. Hear is some more evidence for you. If T-Rex was one billion years old there would be nothing but solid fossil left of the scull. We are lied to in schools, and those who choose what is to be taught in schools do not even teach us what they believe. Stop being a mindless sheep. Look at the evidence. The evidence proves the bible true every time but you cannot understand that because you do not even know what the Bible says. I will help you understand but you obviously choose to be ignorant so you can continue in a life of sin without going insane. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxkeWPCoaec

  4. I do like Mr. Lee’s non-confrontational style, but (as I may have commented before – can’t remember) he has more patience than me. These people are idiots (except for the blonde lass in the bins) who don’t know how to think critically and who don’t know, and don’t care, about the difference between knowledge and belief/opinion. This is not just logically wrong, irrational and fallacious; it is also dangerous… it is a threat to us all, to our children and grandchildren and to the future of our species. These are the same kind of peole who deny climate change and global warming because they don’t want to believe in it (and don’t want to face up to the need for drastic change). These are the same people who refuse to accept the inescapable mathematical FACT that an economic system based on permanent, never-ending growth within a closed ecosphere (except for sunlight) with finite resources, an ever growing human population and increasing food insecurity for much of the planet makes a catastrophic come-uppance a virtual certainty. They do not accept the logic or the rationale of evidence; they think facts are optional and matters of personal preference (like Trump’s spokeswoman) and that their personal feelings are as valid as hard evidence when determinig what is true.

    If it was just these people who were affected by their delusions then I wouldn’t care too much (apart from having some compassion and pity for people who live their lives in a ridiculous fantasy world) but the problem is that beliefs dictate actions and their actions (and inactions) are profoundly threatening to all of us.

    1. What would you say if I told you that I’m an atheist who does not believe in anthropogenic global warming?

      Also, thanks for the compliment given to the “blonde lass in the bins.” She’s my daughter.

      1. What would I say? Well, that would depend on your reasons for your conclusions about God(s) and about anthropogenic global warming. Atheism is the only logical and sensible position for any intelligent sceptic to take in relation to the claims of religions and I don’t think anyone deserves much credit for realising the obvious; although I can see that it might be harder for those brought in in places where religious idiocy and obscurantism are virtually compulsory (like Oklahoma say…) or vigorously enforced by brutal, state-empowered theocracies (like most of the Islamic world).

        As for global warming; again it depends oin your reasoning. If you have considered all the available evidence (and you have the scientific literacy to understand it) and come to a reasoned conclusion then I would accept this as a valid (but mistaken) position. I know a prominent meteorologist in my home town who is also a denier of man made global warming and I think he is genuine, but also mistaken. I am not a scientist (though I am scientifically literate) so I look at the sources that I think are most trustworthy and I also look at the sources and funders of the denialist lobby and I see a struggle between science and objectivity on one side and greedy and short sighted vested interests on the other. I go with the overwhelming view of objective science and also with my own analysis of the economics and politics involved, which leads me to a very firm conclusion.

        However, even if we could conclude that human activity is not the driving force behind Climate Change and Global Warming, this would not alter the inescapable fact that these things are happening and that a failure to take drastic action to ameliorate the effcts and counter them if possible is essential for the survival of human civilisation. We are heading for a global population of ten thousand million plus while the carrying capacity of the globe is set to diminsh and the political and economic stability required to distribute what food we have is under increasing threat. A couple of million refugees trying to enter Europe has had a massive political impact – imagine what will happen when there are ten, twenty, fifty or a hundred million starving clmate refugees across North Africa and Western Asia desperately trying to move North and West. Do you think Liberal Democracies can survive that kind of pressure?

  5. A Creator God is a logical necessity based on the contingent nature of the physical universe.

    Because the physical universe is contingent, it is not eternal. (Eternity means stability and immutability of essence, the impossibility of origin, cessation, or change, but matter/energy is in its essence a compendium of forces and potentialities; it is relativity itself, totally caught up in living, changing, and dying, ergo matter and energy are not eternal) Every physical (natural) entity is contingent and therefore has a cause, and because causal chains cannot be of infinite length, because that would be an effect without a cause, if you were able to follow the causal chain back to the very beginning where the very first physical entity was effected into being, it’s cause HAD to be supernatural, since the “natural” was not yet in existence, something cannot come from nothing, something cannot “be” before it “is,” and nothing can create itself (not even God).

    Others have said that we cannot talk about the origins of the universe since time itself did not exist before the universe began to expand at the Big Bang, so we just cannot know. However, since time is viewed as the progression of sequential relationships between two or more contiguous events, if there was indeed a point when there was no such thing as time, but assuming the universe did exist in some previous form, be it as a singularity, a quantum vacuum, or whatever, then because there was no time, then there would be no progression from the universe’s previous condition from “A” where there was no time to, “B” where there is time. Hence, if there was a point when there was no time, then there never would be time unless some supernatural (outside of nature) force created it.

    Contingent beings are insufficient to account for the existence of contingent beings in the ultimate sense. Frederick Copelston once said, “If you add up chocolates, you get chocolates after all and not sheep. Therefore if you add up contingent entities, you are still left with contingent entities, and not an eternal one”: there must exist a necessary, non-contingent, supernatural being whose non-existence is an impossibility, and from which the existence of all contingent, physical beings are derived (Hebrews 11:3).

  6. liked on youtube.com

    I think it’s easier to get someone in an Abrahamic religion
    to question their theism
    by showing how all of their feelings, intuitions, and life-experiences
    could just as easily be attributed to deism.

    I’m not a deist.
    I’d never pretend to be one, in any serious context.
    But most Christian and Muslim (and Jewish, but it almost never comes up) assertions
    actually have zero dependency on that ‘source’ being Yahweh or Jesus, “even if” (for argument’s sake) they are right that there is something outside the purview of science going on there.

    If Ray Comfort (for example) started telling me about how wonderful the “feeling” is
    and how it’s a “real feeling”,
    and he just “knows” instinctively that it’s not just hormones or other mere biological effects …
    there is zero chance of getting him to question that with any sincerity.
    But it’s very possible to plant a deistic seed there
    and to see it start to sprout.

    If they can ease up on their fundamentalism,
    it’s the equivalent of smoothing the points on a tiger’s teeth;
    they may still go out there preaching,
    but it won’t be as doctrinal, so it won’t be as harmful to our world.

    So I’d probably question the need to assume or assign a gender, to start with.
    It’s pretty silly, really, to infer male chromosomes, genitals, sexual identity, or sexual interests to such a being.
    Chip away at the extraneous bells and whistles that needlessly anthropomorphize the perceived source,
    and guide them gently through the process of realizing that
    ‘whatever’ they’ve experienced
    they still would have experienced
    even if it’s some ‘other’ god doing it,
    and
    even if the explanation is deistic instead.

    -not under the pretense of myself being a deist,
    but just as a friendly conversation about the realm of possibilities.

    It’s a domino that might topple others soon after.

  7. “Faith doesnt make things true, but it doesnt make things untrue”
    Response: “Is faith a reliable way to know if something is true? There are thousands of faith based religions and millions if not billions of examples of people using faith to believe in something. Even if one of them where true but all the others are not, how reliable does that make faith as a means of knowing if something is true?”

  8. And a few things are certain also and proven by World Historians, Scholars and Archaeologists backed by Scientists, (and that is from also outside of the Bible)that:

    A)Jesus existed as an historical figure.

    B) Jesus proclaimed to be the son of God.

    C) The Jews hated him because he did miracles on the Sabbath days and he was proclaiming to be God. (You believe it or not that was their reports to Pontius Pilatus)

    D) the Jews hand over Jesus to Pontius Pilatus and he put Jesus to the cross. ( Pontius Pilatus letters to the Caesar also says that Jesus was claiming to be God and he heard rumors that he was Healing The Sick and raising the Dead…).

    E) Jesus died on the cross as the Roman speared Jesus on his side to make sure… also found in some letters of Pontius Pilatus and others).

    F) Jesus body went missing! ( regardless if he was resurrected or his body was stolen these were the reports, these are facts, this actually happens either you believe it or not).

    And these are backed by World Historians, serious Scholars, World respected Archaeologists and SCIENTISTS.

      1. what are you serious?! Hahahaha… you want evidence of that? Do you live in that much of a denial? This is Well accepted and proven by the huge majority of world historians ,Scholars, archaeologists and scientists.

        It’s a different story if you don’t believe that Jesus was resurrected or he wasn’t God and his body was stolen, BUT denying Jesus existence as well as Moses and the rest of the historical figures mentioned in the Bible??? I mean come on, how uneducated are you? Seriously bro.

    1. D) the Jews hand over Jesus to Pontius Pilatus and he put Jesus to the cross. ( Pontius Pilatus letters to the Caesar also says that Jesus was claiming to be God and he heard rumors that he was Healing The Sick and raising the Dead…).

      E) Jesus died on the cross as the Roman speared Jesus on his side to make sure… also found in some letters of Pontius Pilatus and others).

      the fake letter was debunked. https://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/fathers/view.cfm?recnum=1894

      1. the whole Bible doesn’t depend on the letter alone ,but there’s massive amounts, tons, of archaeological evidence…

        You people are lost. You pray that God doesn’t exist. You will reject every single thing that has to do with God’s essence without even looking into them.

        Go tell the Jews that Jesus never existed, or maybe the Jews never existed either and we are all hallucinating lol

        1. You name is “evidence on God on my google plus” and yet when we ask for that evidence (since at least personally I don’t know how to access your “google plus” evidence) you just say we’re lost and don’t want to believe? Wow, that’s a new level of dishonest.

          Your honor, I can totally prove the defendant guilty. We have an entire room of evidence.
          Can we see this evidence?
          No, you just want him to be innocent don’t you, judge? Why else is there the innocent until proven guilty requirement in law. You should just accept that the evidence exists because I say so, site unseen.

          1. I made this Google Plus page for you that contains links, real pictures , authentic videos of the finds being documented as they are being discovered on the spot and analyzed by scientists. It contains names of World respected Historians, well known Scholars, legendary Archaeologists and Novel Scientist. It also contains documents which testifies with no doubt of Jesus existence with no doubt outside of the Bible which are kept safe in museums.

            There was more evidence of Jesus existence then Julius Caesar, Socrates, and the moon landing combined! And this is well accepted and studying throughout centuries by WORLD Historians, serious Scholars, Kings and important figures, respected Archaeologists and SCIENTISTS

            And there’s not only evidence of Jesus existence, but most of the important historical figures mentioned in the Bible as well!

            And also some Archaeological finds can prove that some events which took place such as Sodom and Gomorrah, the Red Sea Crossing by Moses.. can be proven and not striked as a myth but a BIG, HUGE possibility and most likely to be true just as it is mentioned in the Bible. The evidence are so overwhelming if combined together with other finds and testimonies, that’s most likely the Bible speaks of the truth and this alone is evidence of God’s existence. And since Jesus for film on the Bible prophecies which are mentioned in the Old Testament then indeed he is the one and only God and savior.

            Now I’m going to give you two links in a separate comment section and please let me know if you receive them.

            I want you to spend some real time looking into all this information I’m providing you and get back to me in a few days.

            This information I’m providing you are very much reliable, and if you go a step further and write down the names of some scientists, archaeologists, historians , Scholars and do a little deeper research, you will see how reliable they are and how respected they are.

            Please don’t be a typical stubborn and ignorant atheist which they spend a few seconds in those links which contain massive amounts of information , but they are quick to open the mouth and respond back that there’s nothing for them in there. Yes there is only some ( a very very small percentage ) videos that are put together by people or even Christians, but they are only The Messengers and it is the message and the information they put out that is important.

            If you want to reject them as a hoax, then:

            You must be very very specific and pinpoint which one is a hoax , by providing reliable undeniable visual evidence of them being a hoax.
            I don’t want to hear your own personal opinion.
            I don’t want to hear from you that it has been debunked.
            I don’t want you to give me a link which says that it has been debunked.
            I don’t want you to give me a link that points its finger somewhere else.

            I want the actual Visual Evidence of them being debunked of them being a hoax.

                  1. I made this Google Plus page for you that contains links, real pictures , authentic videos of the finds being documented as they are being discovered on the spot and analyzed by scientists.

                    Real pictures and authentic videos… of documents? Or of the discoveries of documents? Either way, isn’t that a little bit like saying “I have a real picture of the moon” therefore the moon landing happened. Or worse, I have a picture of someone in a TV show watching the moon landing on TV, therefore it happened. But that’s good, evidence, I’ll take a look at it after I finish this response.

                    It contains names of World respected Historians, well known Scholars, legendary Archaeologists and Novel Scientist.

                    WTF is a “Novel Scientist”? What do their names have to do with anything?

                    It also contains documents which testifies with no doubt of Jesus existence with no doubt outside of the Bible which are kept safe in museums.

                    Testimonies by themselves are basically worthless. It doesn’t even matter how without doubt they are. That’s why I asked for actual evidence, not heresy testimony.

                    There was more evidence of Jesus existence then Julius Caesar, Socrates, and the moon landing combined!

                    That’s not even true in a little bit. I could perhaps give you more evidence for Jesus than Socrates, but not the other two examples. Certainly not more than the boatloads of evidence, very specific and independent, for the moon landing. At this point for your claim to be true smeone would have needed to develop time travel to go back in me and film Jesus, in order to compete with the moon landing. It is just laughably false.

                    And this is well accepted and studying throughout centuries by WORLD Historians, serious Scholars, Kings and important figures, respected Archaeologists and SCIENTISTS

                    Oh, wait, a bunch of people all agree – arguments from authority and/or popularity are ALWAYS convincing. Why didn’t you say this before? /sarcasm, in case that wasn’t clear.

                    And there’s not only evidence of Jesus existence, but most of the important historical figures mentioned in the Bible as well!

                    Really? Such as?

                    And also some Archaeological finds can prove that some events which took place such as Sodom and Gomorrah, the Red Sea Crossing by Moses.. can be proven and not striked as a myth but a BIG, HUGE possibility and most likely to be true just as it is mentioned in the Bible.

                    How do you figure? Because, sure, we could find evidence that New York city existed; but how could we possibly find archaeological evidence that Spider-man did (since he doesn’t)? Confirming a place does not confirm the magic that the bible describes. Finding evidence of whatever body of water Moses crossed (there are disagreements on which body of water that was), doesn’t tell you if it was parted, or how it was. That’s fallacious on the face of it.

                    The evidence are so overwhelming if combined together with other finds and testimonies, that’s most likely the Bible speaks of the truth and this alone is evidence of God’s existence. And since Jesus for film on the Bible prophecies which are mentioned in the Old Testament then indeed he is the one and only God and savior.

                    …. WHAT? Jesus for Film? Also, no, that doesn’t follow in the slightest. If we had incontrovertible evidence Jesus – a man – existed; that wouldn’t’ demonstrate for a second that he is a god, nor that he is the “one and only” saviour. You would need FAR more than archaeological evidence for that – evidence I’m reasonably sure you CANNOT have, by definition.

                    Now I’m going to give you two links in a separate comment section and please let me know if you receive them.

                    I see THREE comments following this with hyperlinks but I haven’t looked at that content yet.

                    I want you to spend some real time looking into all this information I’m providing you and get back to me in a few days.

                    Sure. Sounds like a plan.

                    This information I’m providing you are very much reliable, and if you go a step further and write down the names of some scientists, archaeologists, historians , Scholars and do a little deeper research, you will see how reliable they are and how respected they are.

                    Again, appeal to authority. I care about the evidence, not the names. More importantly, I hope the evidence presented comes along with detailed explanations of why specific conclusions can be drawn and/or what methods were used – rather than merely the conclusions these people came to.

                    Please don’t be a typical stubborn and ignorant atheist which they spend a few seconds in those links which contain massive amounts of information , but they are quick to open the mouth and respond back that there’s nothing for them in there.

                    I’m sure I don’t resemble any such straw man. However, if the evidence is exactly the same as I’ve seen before – this isn’t my first conversation with theists after all – then I will not be spending days looking into it further. But I do promise to give it a fair shake as much as I can. I’m not the one with a dogmatic bias after all.

                    Yes there is only some ( a very very small percentage ) videos that are put together by people or even Christians, but they are only The Messengers and it is the message and the information they put out that is important.

                    By people or even Christians? Christians aren’t people? Also, I don’t care if the person is a Christian or not. I want the evidence.

                    If you want to reject them as a hoax, then:

                    I don’t “want” any such thing. I may evaluate their “information” and determine is a hoax, but my “want” isn’t relevant.

                    You must be very very specific and pinpoint which one is a hoax , by providing reliable undeniable visual evidence of them being a hoax.

                    No, that’s an argument from ignorant and an attempt to shift the burden of proof. If they do not convince me then I shall be unconvinced. I am under no burden to demonstrate which ways they are false.

                    I don’t want to hear from you that it has been debunked.

                    What if it has been debunked?

                    I don’t want you to give me a link which says that it has been debunked.

                    Again, what if it has been? You don’t want to know?

                    I don’t want you to give me a link that points its finger somewhere else.

                    So, I’m not allowed to tell you you’re wrong, I’m not allowed to demonstrate it, and I’m not allowed to even express the opinion that you’re wrong. That sounds fair./sarcasm

                    1. I gave you already 3 links, you can either debunk them as being a hoax or else let someone else to do the work for you, I’m not interested in your own opinions or the opinions of others.

                      And you can start with Sodom and Gomorrah and the Red Sea Crossing by Moses

                    2. stop shifting the focus of my statement. You can either provide Visual Evidence to try to debunk them as being a hoax, or move aside and let someone else to do the work for you. I’m not interested in your own personal opinions or the opinions of others.

                      I gave you three links, now you can start with the Red Sea Crossing by Moses and Sodom and Gomorrah…

                      Good luck

                    3. Going through this stuff, you really need to go back over it and update it. Probably get better sources. At least one (so far) video is dead, a link for another one’s source is dead, your typed up bits don’t match the sources you cite.

                      Also, seeing a lot of the same oldies: Tacitus, Josephus, other supposedly contemporary sources which were written decades and centuries after the date by Christians, and others asserted to be by non-Christians written by Christians. IE. good reassurance for people who already want to believe, but nothing for anyone who is skeptical to actually believe in.

                      Still reading and watching though. Just found it amazing that so far this is exactly the stuff I expected to see…. rather than evidence. And per your “I can’t give opinions and debunk refutations” bit (which is still a bullshit bit I don’t accept) it means you aren’t even open to being corrected – which is why I gave the “you may wish to update” criticism.

                      Also, what’s with putting evidence for the flood or Moses in with the evidence for Jesus? Proving you have a toaster doesn’t also prove you have a car.

                    4. I never said you’re not allowed to debunk them , but if you do then provided Visual reliable Evidence of them being a hoax.
                      For example, scientist have proven that the fire in Sodom and Gomorrah have started from the roofs of the houses by burning sulfur, sulfur that there is no reason for it to be there, melted bubbly rocks from the high heat and layers upon layers of Ash.
                      Coincidence or a hoax?
                      How about the Red Sea Crossing by Moses which they found chariot wheels of that Egyptian era and bones scattered in a straight line on the exact and only possible location as it is mentioned in the Bible, with two columns on each side as a memorial testimony with God’s name Moses name and King Solomon’s name. Is this a 2 for 2 quinncidence or a hoax?
                      And then you have the audacity to reject these finds as not being evidence? Whether you like it or not ,these are evidence and they have everything to do with the Bible because they’re just another piece of the puzzle, and we need to look at the Bible in whole.

                      And how about the findings of Noah’s Ark and the Ark of the Covenant ,as they are documented and filmed as the discoveries are made on the spot, and tested by scientists. Are these a hoax too?
                      Was everything filmed in a blue screen Studio and the scientists were actors?
                      Who are you kidding that these are not evidence? That’s why I say to you that I’m not interested in your own personal opinions or the opinions of others, if she wanted to bump them as being a hoax then you must provide Visual Evidence.
                      Thinking that these are quinncidence you are illusional since the evidence on each site is overwhelming.
                      And trying to compare a toaster ( a single object) to the Bible and the overwhelming archaeological evidence which is backed by the huge majority of world historians, Scholars, archaeologists and scientists, it is simply pour judgement and critical thinking.
                      I believe and Trust the experts that know the difference between a simple Stone that proves nothing more than what it is, and a overwhelming evidence of an event with the main characters involved…

                      Like I said either you can provide Visual Evidence or else step aside and let someone else to do the work for you , I’m not interested in your own personal opinions.

                    5. I never said you’re not allowed to debunk them , but if you do then provided Visual reliable Evidence of them being a hoax.

                      WTF is “Visual” evidence? Why would I need to demonstrate they are a hoax? Rather than say, not true or otherwise untrustworthy? Seems like you’re artificially limiting the options.

                      For example, scientist have proven that the fire in Sodom and Gomorrah have started from the roofs of the houses by burning sulfur, sulfur that there is no reason for it to be there, melted bubbly rocks from the high heat and layers upon layers of Ash.

                      Well, no, at most that would be an unknown, not evidence for Sodom and Gomorrah .. since you admit there’s “no reason”.

                      Coincidence or a hoax?

                      False dichotomy.

                      How about the Red Sea Crossing by Moses which they found chariot wheels of that Egyptian era and bones scattered in a straight line on the exact and only possible location as it is mentioned in the Bible, with two columns on each side as a memorial testimony with God’s name Moses name and King Solomon’s name.

                      I have no idea what this even means. But speaking of the bible, it isn’t clear on details… how can the evidence found exactly line up with an unclear assertion? Like I said before, we’re not even sure which body of water was split. Not to mention that even if we found evidence of Egyptians where it shouldn’t logically or reasonably be found, we still wouldn’t be justified in believing in the magical tale as described in the bible as the reason of why they got where they are.

                      Is this a 2 for 2 quinncidence or a hoax?

                      2 for 2 on a false dichotomy.

                      And then you have the audacity to reject these finds as not being evidence?

                      Well, there’s a few bits here:
                      1. I haven’t rejected anything – I merely pointed out why the conclusions you drew aren’t logical.
                      2. I haven’t seen any EVIDENCE for these yet. I haven’t finished your docs yet, so maybe it is found there.
                      3. There’s a huge lurking issue in that I/we asked for evidence for JESUS and neither of these are evidence for Jesus.
                      They’re frankly irrelevant as far as the claims of Jesus go.

                      And how about the findings of Noah’s Ark and the Ark of the Covenant ,as they are documented and filmed as the discoveries are made on the spot, and tested by scientists. Are these a hoax too?

                      Actually, this one I’m already fairly familiar with – and yes, they’re almost certainly hoaxes. I say that for two very important reasons. 1. We don’t know where either Ark ended up. That includes supposed discoveries. And 2. For the Noah’s Ark tale, it is literally impossible to have happened as described.

                      Was everything filmed in a blue screen Studio and the scientists were actors?

                      … Sure, why not, because clearly if it was a hoax it must be blue screened. /sarcasm

                      Who are you kidding that these are not evidence?

                      Who are you kidding, since you think it is?

                      That’s why I say to you that I’m not interested in your own personal opinions or the opinions of others, if she wanted to bump them as being a hoax then you must provide Visual Evidence.

                      Again, WTF is visual evidence? But ignoring that, how could I possibly provide any sort of evidence that they didn’t prove what you think they did? It’s a completely non-falsifiable claim. Note that doesn’t mean true, it means it cannot be demonstrated to be false.

                      Thinking that these are quinncidence you are illusional since the evidence on each site is overwhelming.

                      … Not of the links I’ve read so far they’re not. As I said, mostly its the same tired and thoroughly debunked bullshit we’ve been hearing for centuries. It isn’t illusion or delusion to not accept what is not proven. And please note that most of my objections are the same objections that religious scholars are giving. Going completely contrary to your assertions about supposed scholars and experts and historians agreeing, they consistently disagree with these claims. Now, unlike you I won’t go the step further and say that because they don’t agree that we ought to conclude it is false, but certainly I see no reason to accept the claims you make.

                      And trying to compare a toaster ( a single object) to the Bible and the overwhelming archaeological evidence which is backed by the huge majority of world historians, Scholars, archaeologists and scientists, it is simply pour judgement and critical thinking.

                      … Already addressed the appeal to authority, so, yes, let’s deal with the toaster bit. Do you understand the analogy I’m making, even a little bit? I guess not.

                      I believe and Trust the experts that know the difference between a simple Stone that proves nothing more than what it is, and a overwhelming evidence of an event with the main characters involved…

                      … WHAT? How does this even slightly relate to toasters? Or are you just meaning it as another attestation of faith, now that you’re being challenged you have to make sure everyone knows you’re ready to double down on what you believe. Because, again, compare us. I’m asking for evidence, and challenging you on when no evidence is given; you just default to “I believe” and accept what you think “experts” are saying. Not questioning anything, not evaluating it objectively. Just hook, line and sinker.

                      Like I said either you can provide Visual Evidence or else step aside and let someone else to do the work for you , I’m not interested in your own personal opinions.

                      And I haven’t given my personal opinions. That’s what I’m saying. I’m countering your assertions with reason, not with my opinion that you’re wrong.

                    6. lol have a nice day 😏

                      Visual Evidence are links from multiple reliable experts that they are are debunking them by actually providing hardcored Visual Evidence of photos and test of Their Own, and not a link that they to claim that they have been debunked without even providing any evidence of Their Own.

                      I’m sorry brother I’m moving on, you have the link and you can do as you please. You can research them in depth or you can reject them and carry on to debate for something that you don’t believe that exist.

                      Have a nice day

                      Like I said , I’m not interested in your own personal opinions.
                      You are free to believe whatever you want to believe. I believe based on evidence outside of the Bible and I am well satisfied

                    7. Visual Evidence are links from multiple reliable experts that they are are debunking them by actually providing hardcored Visual Evidence

                      I’m cutting off the rest here just because it is redundant. Visual Evidence, as defined by you, is …. Visual Evidence. That’s a totally vapid tautology. If I didn’t know what visual evidence was the first time – which I didn’t/don’t – telling me to have a specific kind of visual evidence is going to get me nowhere.

                      I’m sorry brother I’m moving on,

                      Of course you are, you’re not interested in actually convincing anyone – you just want to say you have proof and then when questioned flee. That’s fine, it’s what I’ve come to expect, just don’t pretend it is anything else.

                      Like I said , I’m not interested in your own personal opinions.

                      Like I said, I provide reasons and logic – not my personal opinions. Whereas you only provide yours, rather than evidence. That includes your false dichotomous “demonstrate it is a hoax” or “accept it” assertions from last time.

                      You are free to believe whatever you want to believe. I believe based on evidence outside of the Bible and I am well satisfied

                      I know you’re satisfied, it has never been unclear that theists believe what they do wholeheartedly. What we disagree on is whether you OUGHT to be convinced. And to that, no, based on everything you’ve given me – all of the debunked or refuted claims about a man and then non-sequitur “evidence” about other biblical “facts”; you’re not justified in your belief. Whereas my position is merely NOT believing your bullshit, since it lacks reason to be believed. I know your opinion is that I’m wrong, but frankly I don’t care about your opinion.

                      I will continue to look at those links and supposed evidence, but at the moment it is extremely lackluster – Tacitus, Josephus, Letters from “Pilate”, “evidence” for the flood, etc. None of which demonstrates what you claim. None of it supports what you believe. And none of it amounts to “more evidence than the moon landing”.

                      So, I’m at present concluding you are simply dishonest – which I already knew from your refusal to give evidence at the start yet saying we don’t want to believe. And that’s not an opinion.

  9. “And how do you know that?”

    “Well, I believe…”

    What you believe isn’t the question. Almost every theist believes in whatever god he was taught as a child (or, at least, the god of his friends and family). There are converts, yes, but they are rare.

    But none of that answers the question of how you know what you claim to know. What method do you use to distinguish reality from delusion and wishful-thinking? That is the question.

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